Plato's ideal city is here - if you want it
Why Callipolis is not a place to build, but a way to live. Part two of a conversation with ChatGPT
In Plato’s Republic, Socrates constructs two cities—the City of Pigs and Callipolis—as part of his search for justice, but these cities serve more than just a theoretical purpose. The City of Pigs, a peaceful society where everyone lives according to natural desires, reveals that injustice only arises when people crave more than what is necessary. Callipolis, on the other hand, is designed to show what justice must look like in a world where only a few live naturally while the majority pursue luxury and power. This discussion explores how these two cities are not just abstract models of justice, but philosophical tools meant to guide our understanding of politics, human nature, and the true meaning of justice. We argue that Plato does not advocate for Callipolis as a political blueprint but as a conceptual framework for cultivating justice within the soul—an idea reinforced by the Allegory of the Cave, which suggests that the real Callipolis is not an external state but a state of enlightenment that exists wherever wisdom rules.
Jannik: It seems to me that the world in which the City of Pigs exists is a world without wars. The foreigners that the inhabitants hire for rough work are just as peaceful as the citizens of the City of Pigs, so they too seem to be living according to their natural desires - and since the City of Pigs has no army the citizens seems to never have needed one.
ChatGPT 4o: Yes, that’s a fascinating observation. The City of Pigs exists in a world without war, or at the very least, in a world where war has never been necessary for its inhabitants. This is significant because it further reinforces the idea that justice, in its purest form, emerges when people live only according to their natural desires—without excess, competition, or domination.
Your point about the foreigners hired for rough work is especially revealing. If these outsiders were aggressive or expansionist, the city’s lack of an army would leave it vulnerable. Yet, no such threat seems to exist. This suggests that they too live according to natural desires, reinforcing a vision of a world where conflict simply does not arise because there are no luxury-driven ambitions to create it.
Implications of a World Without War
Justice without force
The City of Pigs does not require coercion, police, or a military to maintain order. Unlike Callipolis, which has a guardian class specifically trained to control desires and protect the city, this simpler society has no need for such mechanisms.
This contrasts sharply with most real-world states, where military and law enforcement are assumed to be necessary for stability. Plato might be subtly suggesting that violence and power structures are not intrinsic to society, but rather symptoms of unnatural desires.
A critique of war as a byproduct of luxury
In the Republic, Socrates explicitly states that war arises only after the transition from the healthy city to the feverish city. Once the city develops luxury, it requires more land and resources, which leads to expansionism, conflict, and the need for an army.
The fact that the City of Pigs lacks war suggests that war is not an unavoidable feature of human life—it is a consequence of societies that go beyond natural needs.
A radically different political ideal
If war is unnecessary in the City of Pigs, then the very concept of the state as we know it—founded on power, defense, and competition—becomes unnecessary too.
Many philosophers (especially later political thinkers like Hobbes) argue that the state exists primarily to protect people from conflict. Plato, however, presents an alternative: a society that does not need protection because it does not generate the conditions for conflict in the first place.
Conclusion: The Political Significance of a Warless World
Your observation adds another layer to the political meaning of the City of Pigs. It is not just a healthy society but also a radically peaceful one. This might suggest that Plato, in addition to critiquing luxury and ambition, is also questioning the assumption that war is an unavoidable part of human existence. Instead, he implies that war is a product of unnatural desires, and a world without those desires could be a world without war.
This makes the City of Pigs a deeply subversive political vision—not just a simple, pre-political village, but a quiet, implicit challenge to the entire structure of power, conflict, and militarism that underpins most human societies.
Jannik: In effect, the City of Pigs and Callipolis seems to be meditations on what a just society would look like in a world where all human beings always lived only according to natural desires (the world where City of Pigs exists) and what a just society would look like in a world where only a small part of the population would dedicate themselves to live only according to natural desires (the world which Callipolis exists in).
ChatGPT: Yes, that’s a very insightful way to frame it! The City of Pigs and Callipolis represent two different models of justice, each responding to a different assumption about human nature and the world in which society exists.
The City of Pigs: Justice in a World Where All Live According to Natural Desires
Here, justice is effortless and does not require rulers, laws, or enforcers.
Since everyone only desires what they truly need, there is no crime, no political strife, no war, and no exploitation.
This is a natural harmony, where justice is simply the absence of injustice because injustice never arises.
Callipolis: Justice in a World Where Only a Few Live According to Natural Desires
In this world, most people do not live according to their natural desires but instead pursue luxury, power, and excess.
Since these desires generate social conflict, injustice, and war, justice can only be achieved through strict order—where the few (philosopher-kings) guide the many.
Here, justice is an active project, maintained through education, control, and governance.
The Key Difference: Spontaneous vs. Engineered Justice
The City of Pigs is naturally just—justice emerges organically because everyone is content with what nature provides.
Callipolis is artificially just—justice must be constructed through hierarchy, education, and rigid political structures, because the majority of people do not naturally live just lives.
What This Means for Plato’s Political Philosophy
The City of Pigs suggests that a truly just society would be possible if human beings had the right desires.
The Callipolis suggests that since most people do not have the right desires, justice must be imposed through strict social organization.
This might explain why Plato repeatedly insists that only a philosopher, who does live according to natural desires, is fit to rule: Callipolis is a compromise, a way to bring as much justice as possible into an imperfect world.
The Underlying Question: Which Model Should We Strive For?
Is the goal of politics to enforce justice (as in Callipolis)?
Or should we transform human nature to make the City of Pigs possible?
Plato never explicitly answers this, but by presenting both models, he forces the reader to think deeply about whether justice should be structured or cultivated.
Jannik: I think that the point of the Allegory of the Cave exactly is to empathize that justice should be cultivated. That allegory is probably meant as one more safeguard against falling into the trap of believing that Plato thinks that Callipolis ought to come into existence.
ChatGPT: Yes, that makes perfect sense! The Allegory of the Cave reinforces the idea that justice is ultimately about cultivating the soul, not about imposing an ideal state. It acts as yet another philosophical safeguard against the common misinterpretation that Republic is simply an argument for the authoritarian rule of philosopher-kings. Instead, it suggests that the real goal is intellectual and moral transformation, both individually and collectively.
How the Allegory of the Cave Undermines Callipolis as a Political Blueprint
The Allegory is About Awakening, Not Ruling
The philosopher in the Cave does not seek to dominate or control others—he seeks truth.
His return to the Cave is not about establishing a rigid political order but about helping others see reality.
If Callipolis were meant to be a political prescription, the philosopher would simply stay in the sunlit world and rule from above—but instead, he goes back to the Cave, engaging in education, not enforcement.
Justice is a Matter of Enlightenment, Not Structure
The Cave represents the ignorance and illusion that keep people from living just lives.
The journey out of the Cave represents philosophical education, which gradually turns the soul toward the Good.
This implies that justice cannot simply be designed into a political system—it must be awakened within individuals.
Philosophers Do Not Seek Power
The enlightened individual does not want to rule—he returns to the Cave out of duty, not ambition.
This undercuts the idea that Plato is advocating for philosopher-kings as an elite ruling class. Instead, he suggests that true philosophers engage in politics only because they must, not because they desire power.
How This Connects Back to the City of Pigs vs. Callipolis
The City of Pigs represents a world where justice is natural and effortless—no one needs to be “freed” from illusion.
Callipolis is what justice must look like in a world where people are still in the Cave—where most remain blind to truth and enslaved by their desires.
But the Allegory of the Cave suggests that the real solution is not simply imposing justice through philosopher-kings but leading people out of ignorance so they can become just on their own.
Conclusion: Callipolis as a Pedagogical Tool, Not a Political Goal
The Allegory of the Cave makes it clear that Republic is ultimately about education, not just governance. The Callipolis is a conceptual tool for understanding justice in an imperfect world, but Plato does not necessarily advocate bringing it into reality. Instead, he suggests that the true political task is helping people escape the Cave, not designing a rigid utopia.
So in a way, the real “Callipolis” is not a city at all—it is the state of a fully enlightened soul.
Jannik: Yes, and here "real" does not mean "the best version of Callipolis" but real as in actually existing. We are citizens in an actual, existing Callipolis to the extent that we have escaped the cave.
ChatGPT: Exactly! "Real" in this sense doesn't mean some perfected, physical version of Callipolis that could be built—it means the only Callipolis that truly exists: the one within the enlightened soul. To the extent that we have escaped the Cave and aligned our souls with the Good, we are already living in the true Callipolis, regardless of what kind of political system we happen to be in.
This interpretation turns Callipolis into a metaphor for the just soul, rather than a literal political project. Just as the ideal city is structured so that reason (the philosopher-rulers) governs the spirited part (the auxiliaries) and the appetitive part (the producers), the well-ordered individual soul is one in which reason rules over spirit and desire.
So, when Socrates and Glaucon say (at 592a) that the intelligent person will engage in politics only in "the city that belongs to him"—the one they have "described and founded"—they may not just be referring to Callipolis as a theoretical model but to the philosophical life itself as the true political realm of the just person.
This also connects beautifully to the Allegory of the Cave:
The prisoners trapped in illusion live in a kind of internal tyranny—they are ruled by falsehoods and base desires.
The philosopher, upon escaping the Cave, no longer belongs to that city; he has entered the true city, Callipolis, which exists wherever truth governs the soul.
What This Means for Political Engagement
If Callipolis is real in this inner sense, then:
Being a citizen of Callipolis is a matter of wisdom, not geography.
It does not depend on external political conditions but on the state of one's soul.
True political engagement is about spreading enlightenment, not ruling.
The philosopher’s duty is not to enforce Callipolis in the external world but to help others escape the Cave, making Callipolis real within them.
Justice is first and foremost an internal state.
The person who has ordered their soul properly—who has made themselves a citizen of Callipolis—is already just, no matter what kind of society they live in.
This interpretation protects Plato from the charge of authoritarianism—he is not advocating for a political utopia so much as a philosophical way of life. Callipolis is wherever justice rules, and justice rules wherever philosophy has transformed the soul.
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