Loving humans, God and the universe
A conversation with ChatGPT about the heart of Platonism and Stoicism
Jannik: Do you agree that both in Stoicism and Platonism loving another person consists in loving the divine element in them?
ChatGPT: Yes, both in Stoicism and Platonism, the idea of loving another person can be understood as loving the divine element in them, although the specifics of how this love is conceived may differ between the two philosophies.
In Platonism, especially as developed in Plato's Symposium, love is a driving force that leads individuals to seek the divine or the eternal forms. This love, called "Eros," can begin with physical attraction or admiration of someone's virtues but ultimately aims to transcend the physical realm and ascend towards the eternal ideas or the Good. In this sense, loving another person in Platonism can involve recognizing and appreciating the divine element in them, as it is the divine aspect that guides the lover towards higher levels of understanding and spiritual growth.
In Stoicism, love is often seen as an expression of one's commitment to virtue and the shared rational nature that connects all human beings. Stoics believe that all humans possess a divine spark or rationality (logos), which is a fragment of the divine reason that permeates the cosmos. Loving another person, in the Stoic view, means recognizing and appreciating this shared divine element in them and working towards mutual growth in virtue and wisdom. This love is aligned with the Stoic concept of "oikeiosis," the process of developing an affinity for others and expanding one's moral concern from oneself to others and ultimately to the whole of humanity.
While the specifics may differ, both Platonism and Stoicism emphasize the importance of loving the divine element in others, as this love is connected to the pursuit of wisdom, virtue, and the realization of one's highest potential.
Jannik: Presumably, the love of the Stoic wise person will expand to encompass the entire universe - complete Logos.
ChatGPT: Yes, the love of the Stoic wise person indeed expands beyond interpersonal relationships to encompass the entire universe, including the Logos, which is the rational and divine principle that pervades and governs the cosmos.
Stoics emphasize the interconnectedness of all things in the universe and our shared rational nature. As individuals progress in wisdom and virtue, they come to understand the inherent unity of the cosmos, and their love and concern for others naturally expand. This progression is closely related to the concept of "oikeiosis," which is the process of developing an affinity for others and extending one's circle of moral concern.
The Stoic wise person understands that the entire cosmos is a rational, ordered system governed by the Logos, and they strive to live in harmony with this divine principle. They recognize that their own rational nature is a fragment of the cosmic Logos, and by aligning their actions with the natural order of the universe, they express their love and reverence for the divine.
In this way, the love of the Stoic wise person is not limited to interpersonal relationships but extends to the broader cosmic context. By living in accordance with the cosmic Logos and cultivating virtue, the wise person develops a deep sense of love, connectedness, and responsibility for the entire universe.
Jannik: And something similar goes for Platonism as well?
ChatGPT: In Platonism, the ultimate aim of love is to seek the divine or the eternal forms, especially the Form of the Good. While the love in Platonism might not be described as encompassing the entire universe in the same way as in Stoicism, there is a similar movement towards a broader and more profound connection with the divine.
In Plato's Symposium, the concept of love, or Eros, is presented as a driving force that leads individuals to pursue the eternal and unchangeable aspects of reality. Love begins with physical beauty or the admiration of someone's virtues, but it ultimately aims to transcend the physical realm and ascend towards the eternal ideas, which are perfect and divine.
As a person's love and understanding of the divine grow, their love for particular individuals or objects in the material world is transformed into a deeper appreciation for the eternal forms that these things reflect. In this way, love in Platonism expands beyond interpersonal relationships and directs the individual towards a broader connection with the divine.
While the specific details and focus of love may differ between Platonism and Stoicism, both philosophical systems emphasize the importance of love in guiding individuals towards a deeper understanding of the divine and the pursuit of wisdom and virtue. In Platonism, this love is directed towards the eternal forms and the Good, while in Stoicism, it encompasses the interconnectedness of all things and the cosmic Logos.
Jannik: Have a look at the following quote from Seneca. Do you agree that he does not encourage us to forget about loving human beings but, rather, encourage us to widen our perspective to include more than human beings?
"What a despicable thing a human being is if he does not rise above human affairs! All the time that we are struggling with our passions, what is so wonderful about our achievement, even if we prevail? We are outdoing monsters: why should we be conceited because we are not as bad as the worst people? I cannot see why anyone who is more robust than the others in a hospital should be pleased with himself: strength is quite different from good health. Have you broken free from moral vices? Your face does not have a feigned expression, your speech is not designed to please somebody else, nor are your feelings concealed, nor do you harbor greed, which denies itself what it has taken from others, nor luxury, which squanders money shamefully only to recoup it even more shamefully, nor ambition, which will bring you honors only by dishonorable means? You have not yet achieved anything: you have broken free from many things, but not yet from yourself. The virtue to which we aspire is marvelous not because freedom from evil is in itself wonderful, but because it releases the mind, prepares it for knowledge of the celestial, and makes it worthy to enter into partnership with god".
- Seneca, Natural questions Book I, praefatio 1-7
ChatGPT: In this quote from Seneca's "Natural Questions," he does encourage readers to widen their perspective beyond human affairs and not just to focus on overcoming personal vices. Seneca is not suggesting that we should forget about loving human beings; instead, he emphasizes the importance of transcending human affairs to seek higher wisdom and understanding, which will ultimately lead to a deeper connection with the divine.
Seneca argues that it is not enough to simply overcome moral vices or become better than the worst people. Such achievements, while commendable, do not represent true virtue or wisdom. Instead, he suggests that true virtue involves breaking free from oneself and aspiring to connect with the divine or celestial.
By transcending human affairs and overcoming personal limitations, one's mind becomes prepared for higher knowledge and understanding. This process allows the individual to enter into a partnership with the divine, which is the ultimate goal of Stoic philosophy. In this sense, Seneca's encouragement to rise above human affairs and seek a broader perspective aligns with the Stoic emphasis on expanding one's love and concern beyond interpersonal relationships to encompass the interconnectedness of all things and the cosmic Logos.
In summary, Seneca's quote does not advise readers to forget about loving human beings, but rather to widen their perspective to include more than just human affairs. By doing so, one can develop a deeper understanding of the divine and attain true wisdom and virtue.
Jannik: In other words, seeking to imitate the divine is not an escape from morality but the foundation for morality.
ChatGPT: Yes, that's a fitting summary. In both Stoicism and Platonism, seeking to imitate the divine is not an escape from morality but serves as the foundation for morality. Both philosophical systems hold that understanding and aspiring towards the divine lead to the development of virtue, wisdom, and the highest form of moral life.
In Stoicism, aligning oneself with the divine principle or Logos involves living in harmony with the natural order of the universe, cultivating virtues, and realizing the interconnectedness of all things. The divine rationality that permeates the cosmos is the basis for moral conduct and personal growth. By imitating the divine and embracing the Logos, a Stoic practitioner aims to live a life of wisdom, virtue, and harmony with the cosmic order.
In Platonism, the divine is represented by the eternal forms, especially the Form of the Good. Seeking to understand and imitate the divine involves striving to realize the eternal forms in one's life and actions, which leads to the cultivation of virtues and moral excellence. The pursuit of the divine not only serves as the foundation for morality but also helps individuals transcend the limitations of the material world and attain a higher level of spiritual and intellectual understanding.
In both philosophical traditions, the imitation of the divine provides the foundation for morality, guiding individuals towards a life of wisdom, virtue, and harmony with the higher principles of reality.